Lists: Is Razorback spam really that good? Part 2

The first part of this article got a lot of good feed back so I thought it would be a good idea to write a follow up. Those of you didn't read the first part should go check it out here before reading on, be sure and read the comments because Lee, the SW player from that article, gives really good feedback in the comments.  Lee was gracious enough to come in and play a few games at Game Empire in Pasadena against me since I hadn't had the chance to play against him or that type of list before.  Below the break you'll find a few short synopses of the two games we played.

 First off thanks to Lee for coming by and playing.  Second; let me state his list is excellent and he knows what he is doing when it comes to 40k.  Our first match was his Wolves vs. my Salamanders.  Here are the lists.




Wolves:
Rune Priest
Wolf Lord on TWC(Thunderwolf Cavalry)
2x 5 w/Meltagun GH with Las Plas RB
2x 5 w/Flamer GH with Las Plas RB
4 TWC with 1 SS, Fist, other equip
AC/LC Pred
3x Autocannon Dread
2x 5 Missile Long Fangs


Salamanders:
Vulkan
Librarian with TDA(Tactical Dreadnought Armor or Terminator Armor)/SS Gate/Null Zone
5x TH/SS Terminators Land Raider Redeemer
8x TH/SS Terminators
Dread w/ MM HF Drop Pod
2x Tactical Squad (10) w/ MG MM PF Combimelta Drop Pod
2x Scouts (5) BP/CCW Powerfist
2x Land Speeder Storms w/MM

Land Raider Love

We rolled up Pitched Battle Deployment with Capture and Control (the draw mission).  Lee won the roll to choose sides and chose a side that provided good central cover with a large rocky fill that provided both height for LoS and cover.  He deployed his entire force in a very smart way so I couldn't get directly in contact with his units easily.  I deployed my LRR out of sight behind a large hill with the second Terminator Squad and Librarian hiding there as well.  The LSS w/ Scouts were held in reserve to outflank.  His first turn shooting was negated by my having nothing in LoS so he jostled his TWC, RBs, and Dreads around to make sure his objective was well covered and to insure his TWC and at least one RB were in position to go after mine later in the game.  My initial Drop Pod Assault of the Dread and 1 Tac squad accomplished nothing.  The Multimelta on the Dread failed to penetrate and the Tactical Squad pod scattered the full 12 inches backwards away from his forces leaving them in the open near my objective.  The LRR and Libby/Termies moved forward but I quickly realized my big mistake in this game was my idiotic deployment.  Long story short the Storms and their scouts failed to penetrate let alone destroy any RBs, Dreads, or Preds despite Vulkan Twin Linking the Melta weapons.  The Hammernators performed really well taking out a few TWC and tying up the Lord for a decent amount of time while the other TH/SS termies and Vulkan ate a few units.  In the end it wasn't nearly enough to even pull out a draw.  After the match Lee and I both agreed my deployment of the Land Raider Redeemer and the other Terminators was a huge mistake, and the underperformed melta weapons was killer too.  I was far too conservative with the LRR and terminators since his list only has the 2 melta guns.  Combine that with Lee being a smart player and the nails were firmly placed in the Salamanders coffin round after round.  Lee had said he wanted to test the list against a double or triple Land Raider list so yesterday I obliged and brought my 2 Land Raider Crusader Logan list.


Lee brought his same list so I'll just post mine here.
Overwatch's Wolves
Logan Grimnar
Wolf Guard Pack #1
TDA 2x Wolf Claws
TDA TH/SS
TDA PF/SS
TDA PW/SS
TDA FB(Frost Blade)/SS
LRC (Land Raider Crusader) Dedicated Transport
Wolf Guard Pack #2
PA Combi-melta PF
PA Combi-melta PF
TDA 2x WC
TDA 2x WC
TDA PF/SS
TDA FB/SS
TDA WC/SS
Grey Hunter Packs 5 GH MG, MotW(Mark of the Wulfen), PW  Razorback w/ TLAC(Twin Linked Assault Cannon)
2x Long Fangs w/ 5ML

Pre-Heresy counts as Logan Grimnar, The Great Wolf

For this mission we rolled Capture and Control again but Dawn of War.  I got the first turn, and deployed WG pack 1 w/ Grimnar in their LRC right in the middle of the table across from Lee's objective.  I felt pretty confident about his battle, especially having 1st turn.  I made an insane number of cover saves for my Land Raiders with out failing 1 all game despite Lee penetrating them with Las Cannons more times than should statistically be possible!  I think Lee would agree that this game was far more fun than the one against my Salamanders.  Grimnar and his squad were able to charge his Lord and TWC on turn 2 and wiped them by the end of 3, through really good play Lee had himself set up to win at the end of turn 6 with only 1 squad of GH left for him and no troops left for me I was able to shoot his last squad of GH down with my last surviving LRC and force them to flee off the objective.  Luckily the game ended and we both logged a draw.  The game was fun for both of us and Lee was really grateful for the chance to try his list out against the double LR list.  I was glad to not get rolled by him a second time and I got to use Logan Grimnar and Wolf Guard Terminators.  Wolf Guard Terminator haters be damned, they took down a squad of TWC and a Wolf Lord on TWM.  In case your wondering my second squad of Terminators failed to make it into range to double assault the TWC by 1 inch and were subsequently shredded by the massive amount of firepower in Lees army during the next turn.


All in all I am really happy to have gotten to play Lee.  I am not a player who can just draw things up on paper, work out the math and think I know how to beat or play a list.  I need to fight it or fight with it to get a handle on it.  Having seen this army in action twice it is really amazing how much firepower is in the list.  Round after round Lee pumped fire into both armies and I watched helplessly as I failed 2+ and 3+ saves simply from the sheer number of saves I was forced to take.  The answer to is Razor spam unbeatable is no, but it isn't a cakewalk either.  The best I have pulled off so far is a draw...  Thanks again to Lee for the games!