Devastators took a bit of a hit in 5th ed. The weapons are a little too pricey in C:SM making a full unit of 10 well over the 200 point mark while all except the mighty LR come in at under 200. But there are distinct advantages to a Dev squad that you can't get from a cheaper tank. First off it is highly unlikely that an opponent will one shot your dev squad into oblivion, so they are more survivable than tanks. Second if you take a 10 man squad you can combat squad them and hit multiple targets, tanks (except LR) can't split fire. Third advantage; there is no other source in C:SM for you to get 12 Heavy Bolter shots, 4 Plasma Cannon shots, or 4 Missile launcher shots for 200+ points. With the amount of MEQ armies being fielded 4 Plasma Cannons can be a beautiful thing to see leveled against your opponent, just ask a Guard player. Fourth advantage, you can buy them a tank that will add firepower to the unit, a Twin Linked Heavy Bolter equipped Razorback or a TL Las Cannon RB can really add some punch to the unit. I understand that the unit is expensive, but I have had success running them in minimum 5 man squads so if you can't stomach the full price and want to give them a go, try MSUs of Devastators. What it all comes down to with Devastator squads in C:SM is this: If you want a ton of fire power in your list that can hit multiple targets then combat squaded devastator squads are your best choice.
The Thunderfire Cannon is a very unique choice for Space Marines in several ways.
1. It is an artillery piece that is not mounted on a vehicle.
2. It is the only unit in the army that uses the artillery/gunner rules.
3. It is the only multiple template shooting weapon in the army.
4. It is the only shooting based unit that can boost the cover save for itself and other units in the same ruins.
5. No other Marine codex has it.
Many people like to malign the Thunderfire Cannon because it is too easy to kill. While this is somewhat true the ability to boost their cover saves to a 3+ makes a Thunderfire Cannon a bit more survivable. Some things to bear in mind. Your army should have targets that are far more important than your Thunderfire Cannons (notice I used the plural of cannon). If your opponent decides to go after your Thunderfire Cannons instead of your Land Raider full of TH/SS Terminators then that is actually a win for you. Thunderfire Cannons can put out massive amounts of fire, their lack of a low AP value isn't as big of a deal as people like to make it out to be. Anytime you a firing a weapon that is wounding MEQ's on a 2+ you are putting out enough wounds to cause a lot of failed armor saves. The only problem I find with Thunderfire Cannons is that you truly have to take more than 1. 3 of them is super effective and 2 isn't bad but 1 seems to never get the job done. I know this won't be popular but I find Thunderfire Cannons to be a fantastic choice for Vanilla Marine players to put in their Heavy Support slot. Don't be afraid to try things out for yourself!
This concludes the Heavy Support edition of the "And They Shall Know no Fear" articles. Next up is the Fast Attack choices, so stay tuned!
Thunderfire cannons and Devestators are the way to go!
ReplyDeleteOh come one, you can't actually believe that either of those choices are good. Devastators are far too expensive and if someone takes Thunderfire Cannons and they last past turn 1 then their opponent is a moron.
ReplyDeleteI typically don't use a lot of heavy support, but when I do I tend to choose: 1) Land raiders if I am using an assault based army
ReplyDelete2) Devastators with all heavy bolters or missile launchers if I'm using a stand and shoot army (keep the las cannons and plasma cannons in the tactical squads for price).
2) Multiple Vindicators in a Rhino Rush army
I haven't yet put together my Thunderfire cannons, but that is only because my Ultramarines are on hold. There is a guy who games at Game Empire on occasion that runs 2-3 thunderfire cannons in his lists and if he goes first he can take out almost every light tank on the board, as well as do serious damage to any foot sloggers. If he knows he is going second he surrounds the Thunderfire cannons with rhinos and hopes he can drive away later.
Thunderfire cannons can survive a round of shooting against even the best opponent if you have built and play a list which properly supports them. Here is a sample list; after which I will describe why it works in support of TFCs.
ReplyDeleteHQ:
Vulkan
Elites:
5 Assault Terminators in a LRR
Ironclad Dread w/MG,HF in a Drop Pod x2
Troops:
Tac Squad w/ MG,MM,CombiMelta in Pod
Tac Squad w/ Flamer/ML Combiflamer/PW in Razorbacks x2
Heavy Support:
Thunderfire Cannonx2
With this list the two drop podded Ironclads+RBs full of troops+LRR full of death mean your "smart" opponent from your example would be doing the smart thing by ignoring the TFCs in favor of the more pressing threats being shoved down his throat. There are a myriad of other scenarios in which TFC/Devastators are a good choice but I don't have the time to list them all right now.
As an Ork player I HATE thunderfire cannons and they will be my top priority on the kill list. If I go first against a list with them, I can almost guarantee that they will die before they fire a shot. Devastators are not so much of an issue and will be lower on the list. I do like counterbatterying the devs with my lootas for style points.
ReplyDeleteExactly Darrian, the uses/priority of units is always situational. Of course as an Ork player the TFC are going to be a high on your target priority but they will be considerably less important if you took your chaos marines. I don't like blanket assessments that unit X is always bad and never worth taking under any circumstances. I try to avoid that as much as possible. The lootas/dev counter battery is cool, I would definitely give you style points for that one.
ReplyDeleteI dueled a longfangs squad yesterday with my lootas. Good times.
ReplyDelete"3. It is the only multiple template shooting weapon in the army."
ReplyDeleteThats untrue. Both the Cyclone Missile launcher (terminators)and the Typhoon Missile launcher (Land Speeders) are heavy 2. So they can put out multiple templates. Additionally, the Astartes Grenade Launcher can Rapid Fire, Blast, so it has the possibility to put out multiple templates. But you are correct in that none of these weapons have the destructive capability of a TFC.
I had this conversation with OW at our FLGS the other day. He told me he meant to say it's the only multiple template heavy support choice. I guess he didn't want to edit the original post to fix his mistake ala BoLS.
ReplyDelete